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Holly Wilson (Wolfson Project Programme Manager, The British Museum)

Exploring sensory-friendly museums

transcript s.3 ep.2

SPEAKERS

Holly Wilson, Alina Boyko, James Harrod

James Harrod

Hi everyone. Just a quick message to let you know that this episode was recorded before the COVID pandemic. As we are all learning and growing, some views may have shifted in the meantime, and this episode doesn't necessarily reflect current events. We hope you enjoy the show.

00:00

Alina Boyko

Hello, this is For Arts` Sake, a podcast that gives voice to museum people. Here we discover their untold stories, for arts sake and for your sake.

00:17

James Harrod

We are joined this week by Holly Wilson, the programme manager for the Wolfson Project at the British Museum. In her work, Holly is dedicated to creating inclusive and accessible museum experiences for children and adults alike. She has previously worked with charities, the corporate world and even medical technology.

00:26

Alina Boyko

We are really looking forward to hearing all about Holly's carried work and how she got to where she is today. So Holly, welcome, and thank you for joining us.

00:44


Holly Wilson

Thank you for having me.

00:51

James Harrod

So Holly, before we get into your current work, your background is kind of really interesting. If I'm not wrong, before you were involved in charities and museums and corporate stuff, you studied biotechnology and bioengineering. How did that career change happen?

00:53

Holly Wilson

Yeah, it was quite a big career change. So growing up, I liked math and physics, and I also liked helping people, so I did a lot of volunteering. When I saw bioengineering, I thought it was a great way to combine all of those together. So I did bioengineering, I did a lot around biomechanics, prosthetics, that sort of thing, so assistive device technology, which is how it fitted into my volunteering with disabled people. But then, when I was in my third year, I did an internship at PwC, and ended up being offered a full time role there. So I decided to do that, I wanted to get some corporate experience. I did that for two and a half years, got to travel around the world with that. So that was really interesting, seeing different sectors, working quite a lot in the health and medical device technology sector. But then just realised, it wasn't for me. I realised that I like to be a project manager, but actually, the stuff that I’ve done originally around helping people and working with disabled people, it was actually the area that I felt more comfortable in and was more passionate about. So I actually decided to make quite the big, big and brave career move I think, to go back into sort of charity and third sector work. I started at MENCAP, so BARNET MENCAP, working sort of more on the other side to what I do now, so planning trips, supporting people, more of a one to one basis. So I'd actually be the person organising trips into the museums or into the arts institution for my group. And through that I had really seen the barriers that were there, and actually that it can be quite a difficult experience for some people and quite overwhelming. So when I saw the opportunity at the British Museum to be doing something that actually would make the museum more accessible for lots of people and support and help lots of people, I decided to make the move across. So quite a diverse background.

01:08

James Harrod

Yeah, definitely.

02:49

Alina Boyko

That's wonderful. Like, you get to see a bit of both, and you finally got into the Wolfson Project now.

02:49

Holly Wilson

Yep.

02:55

Alina Boyko

What is that about? How do you get into it? Can you please tell us what it is?

02:55

Holly Wilson

Yeah, so the reason it is called the Wolfson Project is because it's sponsored by the Lord Leonard and Lady Estelle Wolfson Foundation, so they actually sponsor other organisations at the museums in London and across the country to do similar types of work. So they've got a really big focus on education and access. So it's an education access programme, it's been running since 2014, but fundamentally, it's about trying to make the museum more accessible and inclusive for visitors with learning disabilities and other neuro diverse profiles, such as autism. So that could be in terms of programming events, it could be resources for independent visits, and just general advice and guidance really.

03:01

James Harrod

When did this start, the British Museum and the Wolfson Project?

03:41

Holly Wilson

So my understanding is it started back in 2014, and it had a slightly different focus then. This current round has been since 2017, which one predominantly had the focus for learning disabilities and autistic visitors. We're actually gonna be starting a third phase starting from April this year, which again, will continue the work we've been doing over the last three years and expanded into adult programming too.

03:44

Alina Boyko

So it's been changing. How is the project itself different from other inclusivity projects that are happening?

04:05

Holly Wilson

So there's been quite a lot of focus beforehand on schools and young audiences. So I think you had my colleague Ed Lawless. He works with the Samsung Digital Discovery Center. I was like the SDDC, what does that stand for? And also there is a lot of work being done in our learning teams, so in the school team around schools that were coming with students with access requirements, but there hadn't actually been that much work done for independent visits and family visits. So I think that's where it's differed slightly. Actually, my role is more about bringing all the separate pieces of work together and embedding it into the regular programming, sort of helping to come up with new ideas, but making sure that it's sustainable going forwards.

04:12

James Harrod

So can you elaborate a little more on what your role is? What's a typical day in the life of Holly Wilson?

04:54

Holly Wilson

Ok. So sometimes I'll be involved in equality and diversity training. So actually training up staff around different access requirements. So that could be right from security, so my role is to think about the whole journey and not just once they get to the museum. So, you know, somebody could have already had quite a stressful journey, it could have been quite overwhelming for them to even get to the museum in the first place. So my role is to think about what happens when they first come, the security staff, how they get through, like the security tents, etc. So the accessibility of actually getting into the museum. Then I will also be looking at, like I said, events, so doing things like the early mornings, so sort of thinking about what events I've got coming up, making sure that everything's in place for that. And then also, a lot of work in our resources, so actually, like our digital online resources. So for instance, today, I've been spending the morning trying to arrange for a pre visit guide to be made, which will actually give a lot of the accessibility information in much more detail, in one downloadable guide with lots of photos, which is really visual, so people can, again, sort of know the barriers and know how to get to the museum and really plan ahead, so they know what to expect.

04:58

Alina Boyko

We wanted to know how you make this information available? If someone wanted to know about this, how do they find out about the project and all the accessibility resources?

06:06

Holly Wilson

So we've been doing quite a lot of work updating the website. So the British Museum got updated just before Christmas, the website, and myself and my manager have been doing a lot of work around that and making sure the accessibility information was updated. As part of that, like I said, we have been doing a lot of online resources. So the sensory map that's now on there, this pre visit guide, which will go up, so trying to get everything or as much as possible that we can do, sort of online, easily accessible and easily visual. Then people can also contact myself and my manager through the access email or the access phone number. So we are available 9 till 5, usually Monday to Friday. And then I do a lot of work in setting up sort of independent visits or group visits and working with them to sort of tailor their visits as they come.

06:16

James Harrod

Cool. Any highlights from your work with the Wolfson Projects so far that, you know, the stuff that you are really proud of?

07:02

Holly Wilson

So many. So setting up the early mornings has been really fantastic. So that's been done through advisory panels, so we're actually working with families directly on sort of trialing stuff, getting lots of feedback. So we ran our first one back in September, and we've got our next one in February. So we did a piece of work looking at the museum from the point of view of sensory processing requirements. So different light levels, noises, crowdy and busy spaces, or quieter spaces, and things like temperature and strong smells. So that's actually useful, not just for visitors with sensory processing requirements, but actually, I think it's useful for anybody who comes to the museum, because it can be overwhelming for anybody coming in. So I think that's the main thing that I think about all this type of work, is obviously I'm designing it for one specific audience in mind. But actually, the idea is it should make the museum a more inclusive and accessible place for everybody.

07:07

Alina Boyko

Just the idea, that's a lovely idea. And as you say, everyone can benefit from it, which is something really important to highlight, the fact that it's not only for that target audience, but the fact that's making it accessible to a small group of people, makes it accessible to everyone.

07:58

Holly Wilson

Yeah, exactly.

08:11

Alina Boyko

So on that note, what do you understand by inclusivity? Why is it important in the museum?

08:12

Holly Wilson

I think for me, it goes back to the social model, but the idea that somebody, you know, we use the phrase disabled people, because actually, it's the society and the way the society is set up, that is disabling that person, it is not that medical version of the impairment causing someone to be disabled. So for me, I suppose particularly with my background, inclusivity for me is that everybody should feel that they are able to come to the museum or to a space and enjoy it, but also be represented by it too. So it's not just that they're hearing someone else's story, but they're also part of the story, too. So any work that I can do, both within the museum, and across the sector to help that is something I'm really passionate about, I'm really keen to push forward.

08:20

James Harrod

Are there any upcoming bits and pieces that, you know, can you maybe give us a little sneak peek of things at the Wolfson Project or other aspects of inclusivity in the museum you are working on, to that end of making it a sort of more inclusive space for everybody?

09:02

Holly Wilson

Yeah, like I said, there's been quite a lot of focus in the last nine months on setting up the early mornings. That's a lot around families and younger audience members. We're doing a lot of work now to increase what we're offering for adults. So I'm actually working on a project with Action Space. So I'm working with Action Space on a series of workshops, which will bring in disabled artists who actually lead sessions for other disabled visitors. Each one will be focused around a different gallery or collection or a free exhibition that we are doing. So that's sort of hot off the press, something that we're setting up at the moment, and we're hoping to run every other month between now and Christmas.

09:16

James Harrod

That's fantastic. And again, is that inclusivity for everybody, is that not just a token, almost like a token of approach, of, hey, we did a thing about disabled people, we are actually including them. Nothing about that approach I think is really important. For anybody who is listening, who's maybe not aware, could you explain a little bit about what Action Space is?

09:55

Holly Wilson

Yeah. So Action Space is an organisation, they are actually based very close to the museum in Holburne. They work with emerging and existing artists or established artists, learning disabilities, on projects, exhibitions, workshops. So quite recently, they did the Tate Exchange, they actually did an interactive where different artists had their artwork displayed, and visitors could go in and interact and add to the artwork. So we've worked with them before, they actually came and did a Purple Light Festival at the museum, but really is about sort of being disability led and promoting disability arts.

10:13

Alina Boyko

So are there any other initiatives that you know about that are taking place, that we would like to highlight? Anything that you find interesting or teasing?

10:50

Holly Wilson

I think, just generally, like we're obviously working on adult programming in terms of accessibility, but also, I know speaking to colleagues across the sector, this is something to watch out in a lot of the museums and art galleries coming up, it's something that all of us are pretty much working on and sharing best practice around. So I think it's quite exciting. I think, even myself, having only been in the British Museum just under a year now, I've seen a massive change in the sector in terms of the amount that's being offered. I know a lot of the time Autism gets the focus, but I think neurodiversity and other sensory processing requirements are also important to remember. I think actually, over the next year, we are going to see a lot more, and a lot more different approaches being taken and things like technology being included. So actually, I think it is a really exciting space to be working in at the moment.

10:58

James Harrod

Do you think there is sort of a crossover where the work that's being done in museums, in heritage, in the arts, can carry over to other areas to help improve inclusivity?

11:45

Holly Wilson

Yeah. So actually, a couple of weeks ago, I had a meeting with someone from the Business Disability Forum. So they'd actually seen my sensory map from the British Museum, and they're really interested to see how their clients can do something similar to help improve diversity in their workforce. So actually, yeah, they work with places like EY, and other consultancies and other professional services firms. And they're thinking or they're talking to their clients actually about maybe designing something like a central map, but actually for an office space. Looking at other ways that, you know, we do a lot like volunteer placements, and we look at inclusive interview processes and things like that. And actually, therefore, I think there's a lot that's happening in the arts and heritage sector, because we're so visible, and because we have so many visitors, but actually, it'd be interesting to see how it could be applied internally from an employee point of view. So we're working on that together at the moment. So I hope that will be something again, quite interesting that will come out from the work that the Wolfson Projects has been doing.

11:54

James Harrod

Brilliant, it sounds really, really good, really positive. So as a museum professional with a focus on inclusion and diversity and accessibility, what do you want to see more from museums? What do you want to see more of that already exists, or more of that kind of barely exists?

12:48

Holly Wilson

I think for me, what I would like to see more of eventually, you know, what I'm trying to work on, is that it doesn't sit as a separate accessible programming, that eventually, all spaces or as much as possible, because obviously you have to think about the constraints of like, you know, a listed old building, but that everywhere is accessible, and all events are accessible and inclusive, and it's not something that we have to work, it is like an add-on or something separate. That actually all just becomes part of the museum and art sector. So that would be my ideal state. But obviously, I understand there's challenges to get there before we can get there completely.

13:04

James Harrod

Yeah, it'd be nice if it wasn't a bolt on, an afterthought.

13:43

Holly Wilson

Yeah, it's not even as an afterthought, I think it's just the fact that a lot of the time it's a separate team, and a lot of the time things will be advertised as accessible events. So for me, it'd be great if it was just our core programming that, you know, all of our events, all of the museum and art sector events had that lens on them anyway, as a starting point. Not that we have separate funding because obviously a lot of the time, these projects are funded by external foundations or grants.

13:45

James Harrod

You mentioned previously that a big part of your work obviously is provisioned for adults and young adults with learning disabilities, the neurodiversity autism. Why is it so important that there is a focus on adults as well?

14:13

Holly Wilson

Yeah, it's not even as an afterthought, I think it's just the fact that a lot of the time it's a separate team, and a lot of the time things will be advertised as accessible events. So for me, it'd be great if it was just our core programming that, you know, all of our events, all of the museum and art sector events had that lens on them anyway, as a starting point. Not that we have separate funding because obviously a lot of the time, these projects are funded by external foundations or grants.

14:26

Alina Boyko

Because as you say, at some point they're going to grow, and it's not only the child, it's the family sometimes, given that support to all of them. I guess that's part of the project, isn't it, by not only the person with the disability, but also whoever is around them.

15:05

Holly Wilson

Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, I've had parents contact me to say, actually, it's me that has autism, not my child. But yet the focus has been put on bringing your children with an access requirement. So even just changing wording to be like actually our early morning events are for families with sensory processing requirements, therefore, it fits the adult that has the sensory processing requirements, they can bring their child and they can still enjoy as a family. I think that's the thing for me, is even though we do the early morning sessions, really, I just want to make the museum open at a time when anybody can come and enjoy the quiet space. It's more about being in the space and understanding the stories, less about the activities and having to come and complete a certain number of activities, or be involved in a certain way. Just come and be involved in a way that you want to be and that works for you. But yeah, definitely, you know, we've been working with a lot, up to sort of 25 children and young people, and now I really want to try and push the focus on that plus 25 age range.

15:21

Alina Boyko

Do you have any kind of numbers on how many adults with learning disabilities do you work with? Any kind of numbers?

16:21

Holly Wilson

Oh gosh, that's quite a difficult question. So when we did the Purple Light Up festival, that had 600 people engaged with it, but we didn't split it by different demographics. So Purple Light Up festival was a day we ran on the third of December, which corresponded with international day of disabled persons. So it's Awareness Day across the world. And in the UK, we have a specific thing that's been set up, called #purplelightup, so it's about celebrating it within the arts and heritage sector. So we did a day of disability led workshops, performances, tours. So it's about showcasing disabled artists, but also about the accessible offering within the museum. So as part of that we have 600 people roughly attend and be involved and engaged with it. But unfortunately, we didn't break it down by different sort of ages or disabled versus non-disabled. In terms of more specific smaller groups, we ran an advisory panel, which had 15 adults with learning disabilities that came from different organisations. They were actually involved directly in co-creating workshops that we ran, relaxed workshops and performances. But really, I'm hoping that going forwards we can start to mirror the numbers that we're getting for the families event, which is sort of looking at more like 150 to 200 per event. So hopefully we can grow that number vastly over the next few months.

16:26

James Harrod

Fingers crossed. How much of these events in the mornings is them getting contact with you versus you reaching out to them?

17:50

Holly Wilson

It varies. So for instance, to go back to the early morning explorers, I started an advisory panel, which was for families with autistic children, and that was a lot of me sort of contacting organisations, saying I'm running an advisory panel, do you have families that would want to be involved? I'd had quite a few very proactive individual inquiries come through to me. So I also had emailed those parents to say, would you like to be a part of it. And to be honest, once I had that core group of about 15, they then used their networks. So there is a very, very well established network already out there through Facebook and social media and local support groups. And yeah, within the space of about a week of me putting the event out, they tweeted it, retweeted it, put all over Facebook, I think we had 200 tickets go in the first week or something like that. And now to be honest, it's quite - yeah, I don't have to do much to get those events, but it's very much you put tweets out, you contact a few organisations, and it snowballs really.

17:56

Alina Boyko

As a visitor, do you have any tips for being mindful of adults with learning disabilities?

18:58

James Harrod

Because there is a lot of focus on what museums are doing, but obviously, the museums aren't just the staff, there's also everybody else who is visiting the museum who perhaps might not be as considerate as they could be.

19:04

Holly Wilson

I think understanding is a big thing, and also being aware of invisible disabilities. So, you know, a lot of people won't necessarily realise that somebody has a disability or an access requirement. So I think really trying to take a step back before you maybe react to somebody behaving in a slightly different way than you would or somebody might be looking in distress and you know, going over and saying, how can I help? But yeah, really like no judgment. I think that's one thing I hear a lot from families and from individual visitors and adults, is they like to come knowing, like our specific relaxed events that there's going to be no judgement, that actually everybody is trained, and we understand what's going on. I suppose that's my big thing for visitors attending, don't just jump to conclusions, take a step back, think and try and be as non-judgmental as possible.

19:13

Alina Boyko

Which again shouldn't only happen within the museum space, but just in general in life.

20:06

Holly Wilson

Yeah, just in general. If somebody on the tub asked you for a seat, they've probably got a good reason to ask you for a seat if they've come up to ask you. That probably would have taken them quite a lot of courage. A lot of the time, you know, if someone's coming at you for a seat, they probably have a very good reason to need it.

20:09

Alina Boyko

Especially in London.

20:25

Holly Wilson

Yeah, assume, don't assume anything.

20:28

James Harrod

Obviously, we've said before, Autism is a big focus. Why is that the focus for so many of the inclusion initiatives? What are the sort of the needs and the requirements that make that such a priority?

20:31

Holly Wilson

So I think it's probably that it was overlooked for so long. So, you know, there's been quite a lot of established events and programmes for deaf visitors, you know, we've had audio descriptive tours, VSL led tours, and they've been very well established for so long. And actually, with autism, or other neurodiversity or sensory processing requirements, it's very different, because actually crowds are a huge factor, lighting can be a huge factor. So you have to actually approach things from quite a different way, you know, you can easily adapt some of our other... So for instance, we've been doing like highlights tours, and we're working on deaf led VSL versions of the highlights tours. Well, actually, you can still do those during the main times of the day, you can still do them in the gallery spaces when there are other visitors. But actually, you can't easily adapt that for autistic visitors, because some autistic visitors cannot handle being in that space during, you know, a two o'clock Wednesday afternoon when it's really busy. So I think that's why it's becoming such a big focus, because actually it is about opening the galleries up at different times or spaces at different times, and actually having to put a lot of work and thinking into adapting the environment. Even just things like the resources we use, you know, thinking about colour and design, all that sort of stuff needs to be changed.

20:43

Alina Boyko

This is being something so important that we are aware of. Why do you think some museums and institutions are not kind of focusing on inclusivity?

22:03

Holly Wilson

I think, fundamentally, it will all come down to resources, so it will all come down to staffing, money. We are very lucky that we have this funding from the foundation. So that funds my role, that funds the work that we're doing. But you know, other organisations I know are working on it, but just on a smaller scale. So usually, a lot of the time it will be in people's agenda, they will be aware of it, and it's more just the constraints they have. So I have lots of colleagues from across the sector who contact me and say, you know, hoping to run something or to make changes, we can't do it on the same scale that you're doing it, but can you give us some tips on just smaller things we could do. So I think that's what's really important to remember, that I think it isn't in everybody, or a lot of people are trying to work on, that there are constraints that I do understand, you know, it's not always the first thing that needs to be done, if the lift is broken down, many have to go on fixing a lift first before it goes on the smaller details of programming.

22:14

James Harrod

So one thing that you mentioned the British Museum is doing for young people with autism at the volunteer placements, which I think is, I've not heard of that happening elsewhere, so that is specifically targeted, but I think it's fantastic that you're doing that. How did that come about? How do you approach an initiative like providing volunteering placements for people with learning difficulties, people with learning disabilities, people with autism or that kind of thing? How does that come about? How does the process of putting that all together happen?

23:12

Holly Wilson

So I had experience in doing something similar, supportive volunteering from my previous work in charity. And then when I came to the museum, there had been a trial previously, which had been one person had come in, and we'd seen that it could work, but we wanted to set it up as more of an established programme. So I work quite closely with the existing volunteering team, and one particular volunteer coordinator, Jess Stance. Her background is youth work and disability. So between the two of us we looked at actually, ok, what's probably the best approach to take? What curators and sort of departments would work best to start with, which is why we focused on collections because we can control the environment. It's away from the crowds, because it's behind the scenes, so actually, you're working in a curatorial collections department. We basically worked out between ourselves what time we could give, how much support we could give, and got the curators trained up. And then it was a case of thinking about an accessible applications process. So working with organisations to put people forward, trying to make it as an informal process as possible, but also trying to make sure that everything we do is about tailoring the placement to the person. So we look at what support they require, what reasonable adjustments we need to make and what their interests are. That's in our mind before they've even come for their interview. And then basically, it's a six week supported placement where they get to spend some time doing one particular task within a curatorial department, working with one particular curator. And then we also do tours, workshops, talks that relate to their interests. So the idea being really that it gives people an idea of different parts of the heritage sector, and potential roots in. So it ties in quite nicely, we've had students who are doing university degrees that have come, we're currently working with somebody at the moment who's really interested in classical civilization. And yeah, sort of seeing how we can support them into potentially regular volunteering with us, and then potentially looking at how we can support them into a career. So two of our placementees are now regular volunteers on our hands on desks in the collection. So hopefully, sort of a pathway through, rather than just being six weeks, and then it stops,

23:40

James Harrod

That's really nice. And again, is that sort of lifelong inclusion and not just including people for a little bit, and then forgetting about them, it's really cool. If magically, you could travel back through time, talk to your younger self, and provide yourself with one piece of advice that you wish you'd had in your career, what would that be?

25:54

Holly Wilson

Not be afraid to take risks. So, you know, there was a moment where I nearly didn't leave the private sector, you know, I was really unsure was it the right move to move to charity. I've only been working for six years, I've already done three quite different careers. But actually, it's getting me to where I want to be. It's interesting, I'm passionate about it, so I just think every opportunity you take, or every decision you make will just lead you somewhere else. So don't be worried too much about whether you're making the right or wrong decision, because I think fundamentally, you'll end up where you're supposed to be.

26:11

Alina Boyko

If you had unlimited funding, what kind of museum would you create?

26:48

Holly Wilson

So if I was building one from scratch?

26:53

James Harrod

Yeah, from scratch, from the ground up.

26:54

Holly Wilson

I would think about inclusive design from like, day one. So the Wellcome Collection of There Being Human exhibition. Obviously, they did a lot around inclusive, accessible design, and I think it'd be really fantastic if a whole museum, or an art gallery was designed with that in mind. Yeah, I think it'd be really interesting to see. And then probably to have pieces and collections created all, you know, curated and put together all by community groups, or different groups, rather than sort of, we bring people in, you know, to do certain trails, or certain representations of the current collection. But actually, if you could start from scratch, just having everything curated by different groups would be fantastic.

26:56

James Harrod

I think there's probably a lot of people listening to this, who are thinking what you're doing sounds, you know, really incredible and really inspiring. Have you got any practical advice for someone who has just, maybe they've just made that big career jump from an entirely different sector, and they're now looking to work in museums, what kind of advice can you give them?

27:42

Holly Wilson

Well, I'd say probably the, you know, really focus on transferable skills. So actually, you might be put off applying for something because you think, oh, I don't meet the exact job description. But I didn't have experience of working in the museum and arts sector before I applied for the British Museum role. And it was still my other experience that pulled me in because actually, they wanted somebody with, you know, specialisms on learning disabilities and autism, and that was my background. So I think don't be afraid to put yourself out there and go along and push yourself to try for interviews, because you never know what might happen.

27:57

Alina Boyko

So if you are a small museum, and you wanted to make yourself more accessible with not so much funding, what tips would you give to them to do so?

28:34

Holly Wilson

Yeah, so I think one thing I'd say is things like the sensory map, because actually, they can be online resources, so they can be produced in house. So actually, they can be something that's quite easy and low cost to do, but actually can make a huge difference in someone to be able to come and visit the museum or art gallery independently. I think the second thing is probably to focus on making small adjustments to maybe existing programmes. So if you do have a space nearby that you can create a pop-up sensory space, so we do at the museum, because we have a lack of space in the museum. So actually, because we have a lot of collections, and we don't have some or we can have a permanent, dedicated, quiet area, we've bought sort of things that we can pop up and make sensory spaces, so things like teepees, or tents, which you can put blankets and cushions in. But that's quite a small thing that you can do at a low cost that actually can make an event accessible to somebody because they know there is somewhere safe and quiet they can go straight away. That would be my big tip really, is think about just making small changes to your current programmes or events that actually could make a big difference to somebody.

28:42

Alina Boyko

Regarding the sensory map, would you have a specialist create the sensory map or can anyone create it, what kind of things?

29:50

Holly Wilson

So the way we created ours was actually myself and a team from the museum, which was covering visitor services of the members of the learning team. So we actually did the groundwork ourselves, and then we used the advisory panel. So we used the families to then feedback, you know, like, what icons would you like to use, what colours. So we actually did a quite minimal cost, because actually, it was predominantly done with the advisory panel, and then myself and a team that already work there, and then our design team. So not everyone has a design team, but actually that is something that you could pull together quite easily yourself. So you don't have to kind of go, even though there are external organisations that you can go through, but you can do it internally, it still has the same results.

29:54

James Harrod

Is there anything you'd like to plug, anything that you want to promote?

30:37

Holly Wilson

Go on the British Museum website and look on our accessible events because over the next couple of months, you are going to see a lot more events going up. So please watch out for them.

30:39

James Harrod

Beautiful. Holly, thank you so much, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you.

30:47

Alina Boyko

Where can people find you?

30:52

Holly Wilson

Go on the British Museum website and look on our accessible events because over the next couple of months, you are going to see a lot more events going up. So please watch out for them.

30:52

James Harrod

We hope you've enjoyed this week's episode of For Arts` Sake. If you'd like to learn more about who we are and what we do, find us online at forartssake.co.uk, on Twitter @sake_arts, or on Instagram @forartssake.uk.

31:06