I’m Sabila.

Dar-kuen, thank you for being with us today. So we're always interested to get to know our guests beyond the titles and the short introduction that we made at the beginning. So, can you tell us a little bit about your personal journey, and how you got to where you are today?

For myself, I've been training as an artist when I was in college and graduate school. For everybody else in Taiwan, when we started out here in Taiwan, we didn't have curatorial training or those kinds at that moment, it was the late 90s. So after I graduated, I applied to many residency programs in other countries, for example, Helsinki in Finland, New York and Tokyo. So after a couple of years of residency in different countries, I kind of learned how they run institutions and how they are created in different countries. So when I came back to Taiwan, I worked with some other artists together, and we established an artspace, which is called VT ArtSalon, in 2006, and the space is still running.
I once had a chance to meet one of my friends in New York who is a curator and was studying at Columbia University at that moment. He wanted to do his Seoul graduate exhibition in Seoul at the Hangaram Museum in 2008 and he came to me and asked me, “would you like to help me to finish the project for my graduate exhibition?” And that turned out to be an art fair at the Hangaram Museum. They used the whole Seoul Arts Center, the whole museum. And then I thought, why not? Then I applied for some funding from Taiwan, and he gave me the flow of the museum space. And then we brought, I think, 11 or 12 Taiwanese artists from Taipei to Seoul. That exhibition was quite successful. That moment lasted before the Lehman Brothers collapse, the economic crisis. Our art fair went very well, the economy was kind of good at that moment, so many Taiwanese artists, for the first time, sold their works in Seoul.
After that, some of my friends came to me and said, “Dar-kuen, you should be in curation and help more artists!” I think that was the first step when I started and jumped into the curatorial area.

Actually, for me, it doesn’t matter whether I am a professional artist, or like now, doing the curations and administrations for institutions here in Taiwan. I still believe that I'm doing a creative process for the art environment, and bring the arts society into a very positive way. Yeah, this is what I believe, indeed. So the whole ecosystem, I think, in Taiwan or in Asia, I think that's something, I believe it links together. So for me and my friends, we all believe, just contribute what we have and what we can bring for a better environment, for our society here.

That's really amazing. It seems like you've done a lot of work for the artist as well as creating something new for the arts ecosystem as well. But we're also curious to know more about your work, both as an artist and as a curator. We noticed that your work as an artist and a curator explore a lot about the intersections of Asian culture and contemporary art. Can you talk more about your approach, your thought process, and what messages do you hope to convey to people?

That's a very big question, but I’ll try to answer you in a proper way. I think as a Taiwanese artist or curator, actually, Taiwanese culture is kind of like very much merged into a lot of layers. With these hundreds of years of history, because Taiwan was occupied by different regions or political powers for 400 years, I think our thoughts, our minds were a combination of continental China, and some parts mixed with Japanese culture. And part of it, we have the indigenous peoples, with their own thoughts and their beliefs, their own God and their ancestors as well. So Taiwanese culture - the food and the spiritual is kind of like a mix, with those different perspectives. Then I think nowadays, as a new generation, as new people in the 21st century, we think that here all kinds of things should be merged together, and we do not belong to any kind of, like existing cultural things. We just merged.

My previous project, actually, I prepared some of the books here that I might share with you guys. There's a project I did in 2011 which is called Republic Without People. And last year was the 100th year anniversary of the Republic of China, which is Taiwan. And I think a lot of people, they are confused, which one is the “real” China, because Mainland China is called People's Republic of China and Taiwan’s official name is called Republic of China. For ordinary people and for other countries, they would think both of these are China. That is why, actually, Taiwanese people are trying to identify themselves and use new passports, among other things. And that year, back to 2011, that was the 100th year anniversary of Taiwan, and the Republic of China, its official name.
So I curated a show called ‘Republic without People’ and invited different generations of Taiwanese artists. The youngest, they are 20-somethings, and the oldest was in their 60s. They are very different generations of artists who were educated here in Taiwan. With their works, we try to bring the audience to discuss what is really Taiwan, or between China and Taiwan, and what we can do for the next step. That show was hosted at the Kaohsiung City Museum. At that time, many people went to visit the museum, and they expanded the exhibition period for a month. With the exhibition, I got a very important art prize, which is called the Taishin Art Prize, and the best jury award. It's a little bit similar to the Turner Prize in the UK.
After this project, I made other projects in 2014, and one is called Asia Anarchy Alliance. So by describing political and social issues or education systems, we figured out that a lot of issues are not only happening in Taiwan but also among Asia. So lastly, any other project we did, we tried to encourage or bring more artists who are interested in Asian social issues.

So back to the C-Lab. C-Lab, I would like to describe it this way, is very ambitious and also really supported by the Ministry of Culture Taiwan. It's like a long term project. We were established in 2018 and in January 2018, I joined this project and worked until this day. So C-Lab, let me describe the site here, first of all. This site has been here since the Japanese occupation era. Here used to be the Industry Research Center of the Japanese government in Taiwan. Then, due to war, they used it to research for resources and shipped them to Japan, the main island, and also Southeast Asia, to support the war. Then after World War II, the KMT government came from the mainland, and the site became the headquarters of the Taiwan Air Force. So from the industrial purpose, it changed into the military purpose. But after 2013, the Taiwan Air Force moved to a new place in downtown and other parts of Taipei City, so it became empty for two, three years, until the Ministry of Economy took over for one year. But later on, our former minister, Cheng Li-Chun, had very good ambitions and also a good point of view, and she was very eager to kick off this project. Then I joined the team.
We are located really at the centre of the downtown Taipei City, and the land might be the most expensive part downtown. So it's like Fifth Avenue in New York, or near Central Park, or like a Roppongi in Tokyo. In downtown Taipei, this might be the only land for the Taiwanese citizens, we can have some vision and rethink about what culture or art can we bring to our societies. That's also a very big challenge for us, because in Asia or in Taiwan, it is very hard to convince people, to tell them how art can benefit our societies and have the government's income to be put into arts. It always had to be quantified and to be recognised by the return numbers or or the economic values, while we’ve been trying to do some experimental projects here. So this is a very idealistic project, and we think we are really lucky that we can, after a couple of years, still conduct our projects here.

Yeah, our funding actually is quite simple. We are 100% funded by the government, by the Ministry of Culture, and they support us with quite a huge number every year. Starting from last year due to the pandemic, they also give us other cultural districts in Jiayi, Hualien, and other two cities. So now C-Lab has three sites, not only in downtown Taipei City and also two in other two cities and that two venues are all old factories and owned by the government.

For C-Lab, I think we are a very unique institution, among other museums or theatres or concert halls, because we are more focused on incubation. So from the creation from zero to one, and which means, we are accompanying the artists or the projects from the very beginning. We are more like an incubation base, and also we seek for lots of international partnerships, bring our project from local, from here, and also to grow both. We have this kind of vision and scope.
The first project, we have a scope creators project. We renovated a building, one building, because in C-Lab at the beginning we had 27 buildings. Then in the lens, around like seven headers. Then we renovated one building, and also our operation centres in here, and also some part of the space as the art space, as a gallery space, or multifunction space or rehearsal space, using those abandoned military buildings. Then there's the creators' projects. We do the open call and invite all kinds of people, including the artists or researchers or curators, and they can apply with their projects. Then, of course, we have a committee. We have a selection process and if a project is selected, they can have a studio in the building for six to eight months, and they can realise their project here with our support, financial and also the administrative support, and that's the main project we have.
It's already been six years, and now we have more than 18 members or family members of creators.

I think it's very hard to find exactly the same or similarity with us, but I think I can share with you some of our partners or some of the other institutions we're trying to have some cooperation with. For example, the Asia Cultural Center in Gwangju in South Korea, because we signed the MoU together with them, and we exchanged artists, and also shared some co-productions, and we also brought our C-Lab exhibitions to Gwangju Biennale, the venue was in ACC.
The second one might be the Yamaguchi Centre of Arts and Media that's located at Yamaguchi prefecture in Japan. Actually, I'm heading there the day after tomorrow as I have another speech to share C-Lab with them, because they are showing a group of Taiwanese artists’ works there, and they have a Taiwan Week season there. So they invited me to go there to share different kinds of experiences with them.
Then, I also think M+ in Hong Kong and maybe Centre Pompidou in France, of course. I think in the UK, as far as I know there's a new institution in Manchester called The Factory Manchester. There are some people who came to us this year and we had some conversations. We might, in the future, cooperate with them.

We see that collaboration and innovation are two important values at C-Lab. Can you tell us more about your art and technology projects, like the Future Vision Lab, for example?

For C-Lab, actually, we have two platforms, one is a contemporary art platform, and the other one is the technology platform, and I'm in charge of both. For the Future Vision Lab, that's one lab, there are many folks working on immersive theatre. It has a nickname, we call it the ‘Dome’, and that project was started from 2020. The first one, we already conducted the project for more than three years. Now we are trying to build the second Dome and make it bigger. We still keep the first one in Hualien, at the Hualien cultural district. And that Dome is actually a mobile immersive theatre, you can say like that. With the Dome, first of all, we have very high resolution projections and ambisonic sound systems. The first one we built, the technical markup is: dimensions is about 12 metres and height is about metres. But for Dome version two, the dimension will grow up to 15 metres and the height will be 9 metres, so the capacity for the audience will be from 18 people to 120 at the same time.
Now we are also hosting the TaiwanCreative Cultural Expo here this year, in September, in C-Lab. So we, our team, actually, are very busy trying to build a new Dome, and with the 25.2 like ambisonic sound systems and with 10 high resolution projectors. We also do the open call every year to invite select international artists, and they can screen their images or moving images into our Domes. So one last thing, we are trying to like to conduct this project, and trying to bring the Future Vision Lab, not only here, but also we also participate in New Image in France this year. At that time, we met the SAT in Montreal, Canada, and they also have a Dome. They might be the earliest Dome theatre in the world, and we're trying to bring their programme to Taiwan, and also share new productions to Montreal. This is another international cooperation for Future Vision Lab and what we are trying to approach in this year. We also work with the IRCAM Pompidou in New Image. For further cooperation, we're trying to merge our song lab with the Dome theatres. Inside the Dome theatres, we will not only be just projecting images, but we will try to use it as a vessel where we can do things like live performance, or do generative art inside the Dome. And also we can use 5G high speed Internet to experience different performances, synchronised in different cities.

It seems like the Future Vision Lab is a clear example of how C-Lab is breaking down the boundaries between art and technology. Can you explain why this intersection is so important?

The education system in Taiwan, you know, is kind of, I think, when our generation were growing up, all kinds of systems were kind of, like, stuck together. As I have mentioned in the beginning, I was in the art university. At that time, we already enjoyed cooperations with the theatre department or dance department, and we kind of merged together and were doing all the avant-garde theatre at the moment, or with the film department as well nowadays. In Taiwan, people know we have very good new media, high tech companies in Taiwan, for example, like TSM and others, and Asus, all those kinds of companies, and we are trying to bring our artists actually, to show them what kind of abilities we artists can do. They can write their own programs, and they can write the computer language with Lemon. Linking it with those IT companies, they have more resources than other universities or other labs, so breaking those companies' boundaries or trying to inoculate them can let our artists have more resources.
And in C-Lab, we also are equally trying to help the Taiwan artists and try to stand on the international platforms as well. So I think from the past few decades, we’ve been trying to do it, again and again, we failed, but with C-Lab, I think I will say that this will be a chance. If we have our government support, we can also try to link all the institutions and the technology company or IT company in their labs, and we can share the knowledge together and to develop in different projects with them, in a good way. Then, I believe for Taiwan, they can have more opportunities, and they can have more chances to communicate with our neighbours and also other countries as well.

You mentioned that C-Lab has collaborated with a number of cultural institutions worldwide, including SAT Montreal and Centre Pompidou in Paris, especially within the realms of art and technology, and we'd love to hear more about them. Could you maybe share one example?

For the Centre Pompidou, IRCAM because it is an independent institution but also has a link with Centre Pompidou. And we have a year's MoU actually, when we start in 2019. So we've been in contact for five years. So IRCAM has been helping us to settle down the old Taiwan Sound Lab, because we also have a Taiwan Sound Lab inside C-Lab. It's not only about curatorial transfer but also the technology transfer.
We are also developing our education programme together with them. Each year, we select Taiwan sound engineers or sound artists. Then they can have an online workshop for a couple months with IRCAM together. Then each year we will send our team members and the young sound artists to Paris to participate in Manifesta, the sound art festival in Paris. I remember this year when we visited IRCAM in Paris, we also met some students. They came from London, from RCA, and also other universities. So I think it's kind of like a system: it’s not only a technology exchange, we're trying to incubate the young sound artists or other people, equally, to become professional sound engineers, and they can also work with the other artists in Taiwan.

So for the Taiwan Sound Lab, we support different individual projects. For every year, I think, around 10 small projects. And we also have Creator Sound Off, and we have Sound Off and Wonderland Festival every year here in C-Lab. So it's like our annual exhibition, and for the Taiwan Sound Lab, they will have their sound art festival here. We're also trying to bring the sound art environment in Taiwan to become more and more “booming”, this is another thing we are working with the Centre Pompidou.

We also work with Australia's Critical Path. There's a three-year incubation project. So last year it was the kickoff from last year due to the pandemic. And first of all, this is kind of like a digital residency program online, with the dancing choreographers and the body artists together in Taiwan and also in Australia. In the first year, due to the pandemic, we only can do other online residency for two weeks as a workshop. Then we also do the open call to select the Taiwan new media artist or choreographers. With the Australian artists, they did the online residency first. This year we will send the artist, go to Sydney, go to Australia. Then they can have a physical residency in Sydney. Later on, next year, we'll bring the outcome back to Taiwan, and we will do the live performance project in Taipei and hopefully in Sydney as well. And also, we are thinking of other venues to showcase these projects to bring the outcome to reality. We've been trying to spend, like, three years to incubate these projects.
And besides those projects I mentioned, we also have a Taiwan Animation Base. We have one building, 14 studios that we provide for the animation filmmakers. They can have their own studio here, and with some of the technical support or studios. We also link it to the high speed computing centres in Taiwan, and that's also another government institution, and with their support then our animation filmmakers can flare animations through the internet instead of running it with their own computers. This is another resource we're trying to support for Taiwan's animation filmmakers.

From Europe, I think that the timeline of the culture, because in Asia, or in the United States, modern life history is kind of short. I really admire that in Europe, you can spend, like, a couple hundred of years just to build a church, and you can rebuild a lot of the systems and try to preserve it. And I think this really means something to me, because in Asia, everything was, you know, turned down very quickly, and it's very easy, we just demolish old stuff and just build new things. And I think people should respect the cultural venues and their history.

Yeah. Because I still remember I went to Venice, I went to different cities in Europe, and La Paz, and also cultural preservations, they can be translated to use in a very contemporary way. This is what I saw in Europe, and it's kind of merged together in a very beautiful and very nice perceived way.

This will be a very interesting question with an interesting answer. We are very flexible, you know, and try to find Taiwanese people, we are very realistic and in the good sense, because we were colonised by different countries for different eras. So we know how to mix and how to find the good taste. Let me make one kind of example, food. In Taiwan, actually, it's kind of mixed between two different regions and different cultures. We have Japanese food and Chinese food and, you know, American hamburgers. When you make the recipe altogether, then actually it's kind of like a new fusion: Taiwan-style. So please come to Taiwan, and I will show you around what kind of food we have. This is also the other answer I would like to give to you.

I will tell them, first of all, just look around themselves or yourself. And you know, because they might be still young, and they are, they have a lot of patience and they, first of all, I was suggesting to them to find what kind of resource they have. And secondly, try to use the internet. I think nowadays, it is the really basic and also very quick way to do your projects and to engage with other people. That's the second thing, and the third thing, just follow your heart, follow your mind, then, because I believe that your mind will tell you when you should make the right decisions. Because I only have a cup of coffee time, otherwise I can spend more time and try to talk with them one by one.

So we have a tradition of asking our guests a really thought provoking question, and it's actually our guest's favourite, because it lets them think outside the box. Let's say, if you were given unlimited resources, what would be your dream museum or cultural space?

Thank you so much Dar-kuen

Thank you. Thank you for your time.